so i think joe is trying too hard. that's what i am saying. he was trying too hard. he was pushing it too hard. the snarky laughter was really out of context. it looked awful, probably cost him the polling on the debates. it's too bad. after the debate, it's funny, ryan made his points on the free market economy and tax reform, and biden made his points on don't mess with entitlements and we're going to raise taxes on rich people. i'm not sure there was a winner and a loser in those debates. martha raddatz didn't let either of them really conclude their thoughts because she wanted to go back to foreign policy. >> sure. >> you can say did ryan win that debate? i think he did. you could also argue did biden lose that debate, i think that's possible. the bottom line to me is it will not stop mitt romney's momentum. >> how does benghazi resonate in swing states where there are very few undecideds and when the economy is still the number one topic. >> i'll guess a lot of what we used to call reagan democrats or henry jackson democrats or joe lieberman democrats who may be